25 Jan 2014

MOT 2014

Shifty has now travelled 105,000 miles and also about to start its fifth year on the road. Being older than three years also means it's time for the UK government's annual safety check. This will be the second test Shifty's had. The first one went through without any faults or recommended repairs and its test time again.

Since the last blog post the noise heard before returned, or something similar to it. The Honda Dealer was wonderful rustling up a courtesy car at very short notice even though I turned up on spec and they hadn't got any of the service department's courtesy cars available. In fact they let me use the courtesy car for three days whilst they tried to replicate the noise and cadence braking effect I'd experienced that morning.

Unfortunately they were unable to hear the noise and even after the eight hours of investigation work done and use of a sales demonstrator car, their view was for me to pay nothing until the fault could be located and rectified.

During the time the car was in, they went over the suspension and brakes and found no fault or play or anything that could be the cause. The only noise they could identify was the relatively noisy clunk that the iShift mechanism made on engaging first gear when downshifting under any braking other than light braking.

To rule this noise out, They dismantled, lubricated and reassembled the gear changing actuator mechanism. I can say that this extra maintenance has made the shifting noise slightly less but I think the mechanism can't help making the noise under certain circumstances.

So, for now, I'm waiting until the noise I heard re-occurs before restarting the investigations.

One positive outcome of this affair was the chance to spend three days with a 2013 model year Honda Jazz 1.4 VTEC CVT.  I was interested in how this worked compared with my recollection of the two 1.4 iDSI CVT7 Jazz that came before we owned Shifty.

The big technical difference between the old and new CVT's is the use of the torque converter in place of the start up clutch that older CVT model used. The engine is also different,  the older CVT model used the twin spark iDSI engine and the newer CVT the same variable valve timed engine design used in Shifty.

The iDSI design had a slight torque peak at low engine revs that the VTEC does not and I was interested whether the torque multiplication factor when using the torque converter helped make up for the missing torque from the VTEC at low engine speeds. It did seem to.

That said, I felt that it was easier to drive the older CVT version, with its start up clutch, when in stop-start traffic. On occasion I felt that the initial take up from rest was less smooth than I remember with the old CVT. Also with the older CVT, when stopping, I'd select Neutral when at rest and slip in to Drive when the traffic began to move. This became second nature and found it gave smoother driving. It's worth remarking that the selector mechanism showed no excessive wear in either CVT Jazz we owned with the latter travelling well in excess of 115,000 miles.

With the new CVT I found it difficult to achieve the same driving off smoothness despite trying hard to open the throttle gently. Although it's possible that my driving style has adapted to Shifty so perhaps I could adapt to the new CVTs behaviour. I did hate the way that both old and new CVTs would fight against the handbrake when left in Drive and stopped in traffic.

Shifty is actually very well behaved in stop-start traffic. Applying the handbrake engages the clutch so that the engine never fights against the handbrake. So you can leave a gear selected and sit with the handbrake applied for any length of time without wearing the clutch surface, and without straining the engine. However, if the foot brake is used without the handbrake then the clutch is partially disengaged so it is at the "biting" point ready for driving off providing automatic gearbox drivers the feeling of forward creep they have become accustomed to. However it is not advised to hold an iShift car on the foot brake other than momentarily as the clutch could overheat - a warning lamp on the dashboard indicates this.

Away from stop-start traffic the new CVT had the same effortless cruising of the old but with much better gear ratio control on inclines and downward slopes. The new CVT revs less on slopes and seems more eager and willing to drive. Fuel efficiency seem similar to iShift at an average of 58 miles per imperial gallon of petrol.

On balance I'd rather have the new CVT over the iShift but the difference is not as great as I'd have thought. The older CVT was possibly better at low speed manoeuvres  but on the open road the new CVT is better.

Oh, and Shifty passed its MOT test with no faults or advisories. Well done. Happy Birthday Shifty.

Print out of MOT emmisions

9 comments:

  1. Hi Dunkv.

    Not sure if this is the right place for my comment, but i am in real trouble with my ishifty. It sometime shakes violently when i brake specially when braking gently in high traffic situations. and only way to stop it shaking is immediately turn the gear from A1 to N and it feels like its trying to surge ahead, but it can because of pressed brakes. secondly when this happens i am unable to switch in to "R" gear as the dashbaord just keeps blinking with "R".

    click on below 2 youtube video links to see my car the problem (please turn sound on first)
    link 1 : http://youtu.be/3-XVWWnARMs
    link 2 : http://youtu.be/vR4nhoGdkqI
    I have owned this 2009 Ex semi-auto i-shift honda jazz for about 9 months now. It was behaving normally up until last month. Since 5 weeks I have noticed that sometimes when shift in to Reverse gear, the gear is trying to engage in to reverse but cannot. i.e I press the brake fully and change the gear from Neutral to Reverse but it doesn't shift, "R" dashboard light just keeps on blinking. I have taken the car now 3 times to my local honda dealer( i am still in my 12 months warranty up to Feb-2014), but they are unable to find any fault in their diagnostics. Then Honda customer relations got involved and they also just keep telling me that there is no fault and the only way the "R" will blink is if i shift without pressing brakes. I have told them I always press brakes and I would have been driving this car without issues for past 8 months(I have been driving cars for last 15 years), but they just don't want to listen anymore.

    Also one more thing that happens is that sometimes at a junction, when i stop the car for the red traffic lights, on 3 different occasions the car tries to surge ahead even when I have pressed the brakes fully down. As the brakes are pressed i cannot go ahead but it shakes violently, i then have to loosen the brakes for a split second and reapply again and then it stops gracefully.

    The blinking "R" issue is noticeable almost every day, Shaking issue is also happens more often now.

    As Honda doesn't want to hear me anymore. They have already done the software upgrade twice, but to me this sounds more like either some kind of weird transmission fault

    As we have a small baby, I am really very stressed driving this car around, I cannot take this car far from home due to this problem, i have sometimes ended up cancelling trips. I really feed paralised. All I want is either Honda fix my car, their engineer to visit me so that i can show the fault in my presence or give me my money and take the car back. Whats the point of paying extra money for 12 months honda gurantee, if they can't honour it.

    I am really exhaused speaking with honda, I hope you can assist resolving my issue.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi Lulla,


      I am so sorry to hear about your fault with your Honda iShift.

      You may have already thought about this but I am wondering if the brake light switch on your brake pedal is faulty.

      Can you check whether your brake lights show correctly, do they come on at all or flicker when you apply the foot brake?

      If they don't always come on then perhaps the iShift gearbox doesn't know you're pressing the foot brake. If the brake lights are working as normal then ask your garage or Honda whether there is an extra foot brake switch on iShift models used by the iShift controller.

      Don't give up. The problem probably isn't software and not the gear box. It'll be some silly switch, connector or wire that's loose.

      Let us know what happens.

      Dunk

      Delete
    2. sorry dunk, ignore my previous comment, after you pointed out to check the brake light switch, i double checked today and when i press the brakes, brake light don't always come on, sometimes no brake lights....you are a genius.... do you know if this is something i can just order online and fix it myself, or it needs a professional to replace the brake light switch? As i have lot trust in ruislip honda, ruislip guys kept my car for a week and still did not manage to figure it out...they just kept saying to me "computer says no" for diagnostics

      Delete
    3. I am so glad to hear that you are getting closer to a solution. Don't judge your dealer on their diagnostics. If the system doesn't have another way of determining the brake pedal is pressed say by having an additional switch then no error would be found.


      If you have manufacturer's warranty left I'd get the dealer to investigate and fix because it might be a connector or broken wire rather than the switch.


      I don't know any online sources where you could buy the switch. Sorry.


      I hope it all works out for you and your Shifty. Tells us what happens in the end.


      Duncan.

      Delete
  2. The break light definitely comes on every single time. Also as the problem is intermittent, whenever i leave the car with Honda guys, they always come back saying there are no issues. They just don't believe me. Also did you manage to see the 2 youtube videos as they kind of show the blinking "R" & "A1" gears on dashboard, at which point it doesn't shake at all, just cannot switch in to either gear. The car always drives as expected between A1 and A6 gears once in motion and never has any issue until you come to a stop(not always), the problem happens when trying to stop the car gently in traffic or round abouts or parking on street.

    my local garage thinks it might be the clutch or brake switch but can't say for sure.

    am really confused

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hi im having the same problems with my i shift gearbox as above and was wondering id you have managed to find out what the problem was yet?

      thanks

      Delete
    2. Hi Helen,

      If you look at Nirav's full conversation he discovered that the problem seemed related to the brake light circuit. Since he hasn't replied with what part was at fault, in his case, it could be the brake light switch or related wiring.

      If you get someone to drive behind you and ask them to watch your brake lights. When you experience the problem signal to them and they'll be able to tell you whether your brake lights were on or perhaps flickering. If they are off or flickering, then it's likely that the fault is being caused by a faulty brake light switch or associated wiring.

      If not then it is likely something else. Try asking your Honda garage to run a diagnostic on the iShift controller. It might not reveal a problem but it's worth checking.

      Let me know how you get on.

      Duncan.

      Delete
  3. hi helen/dunkv,

    They replace the brake light switch which fixed the main problem, but after 3 days of fixing the car engine management light came up on dashboard and the car was stuck in neutral, had to towed again to honda ruislip, they then told me that the whoe ishift ECU needs replacing, which they order from germany and after total 10 more days all was fixed. Lucikly that my 12th and last month of honda warranty , so didn't have to pay them.

    HTH

    ReplyDelete
  4. Robert Thomson5 May 2017 at 20:53

    My daughter had a similar problem with her Honda Jazz.....flashing A1 and R indicators.....car wouldn't move....no turn signal lights and no brake lights. It turned out that the main fuse block attached to the battery positive terminal was corroded ad blown. A simple replacement solved the problem.

    ReplyDelete

Thanks for taking the time to comment. All comments are moderated and will be added to the blog as soon as I can review. Happy Honda :)