The lows and the highs?
There was a moment this week that I found myself thinking about the Honda Everything We Do, We Do It For You advert that suggests that all Honda's technological experiences get put back into new products they make. I figured then that i-SHIFT was something that probably wouldn't being be reused in any new products - it has so much bad press and terrible user experiences. Simply Google for i-SHIFT and you'll see end user reviews mostly attacking the transmission.
However on-balance I don't think that it would be fair to say i-SHIFT is a complete disaster. One thing I am very sure Honda have done wrong is not to suggest in the owner's manual how it is best to drive with the i-SHIFT transmission. Some drivers will be used to a torque convertor, hydraulic automatic, or a CVT with a pulsed start clutch, or a manual transmissions. Letting them get on with it without guidence is a recipe for disaster.
The i-SHIFT system:
The i-SHIFT system automates the shifting and clutch control of a manual transmission. The i-SHIFT system will take control of the throttle, clutch and gear-shifting mechanism during a gear-change. A manual override is provided.
Upward shifts
In automatic mode, the i-SHIFT controller shifts to a higher gear when the current engine load and current road speed could be maintained more efficiently in a higher gear. In manual mode, the driver must indicate when an upward gear change is appropriate by operating the right (+) steering wheel paddle or pushing the gearshift forward.
Note: In either automatic or manual mode a higher gear is also selected when the maximum safe engine speed for a gear is reached.
You must decrease the throttle pressure during upward gear changes.
During an upward gear change the I-SHIFT controller must reduce the engine speed to match the gear being selected. To do this the I-SHIFT controller has to take control of the throttle to prevent the engine from over-reving when the clutch is not engaged.
When the gearbox is moved into a higher gear the i-SHIFT controller is ready to return throttle control to the driver and manage clutch engagement. If the driver's throttle pressure is too high for the new gear the mismatch is overcome by i-SHIFT by temporarily reducing the additional throttle pressure. The driver will experience a lengthy upward change and the car may lose speed.
Reducing the throttle pressure during a change increases the smoothness and speed of upward changes.
Increasing the throttle pressure during a gear change will cause a lengthened upward gear change. This may result in the road speed reducing and the new gear choice an inappropriate one. In this situation there can be a further delay as i-SHIFT downshifts to a lower gear.
Upward shifts from 1st gear will not occur until the road speed is above 5MPH.
Downward shifts
In automatic mode, the i-SHIFT controller will shift to a lower gear when the current road speed is decreasing and current engine load is increasing. If the throttle is steadily opened and the road speed not increased proportionally then a lower gear is selected (if allowable). In manual mode, the driver must decide when the downward change is appropriate by operating the left (-) steering wheel paddle or pulling the gearshift backward.
Note: a lower gear is automatically selected when the minimum road-speed for a gear is reached.
The i-SHIFT system automates the shifting and clutch control of a manual transmission. The i-SHIFT system will take control of the throttle, clutch and gear-shifting mechanism during a gear-change. A manual override is provided.
Upward shifts
In automatic mode, the i-SHIFT controller shifts to a higher gear when the current engine load and current road speed could be maintained more efficiently in a higher gear. In manual mode, the driver must indicate when an upward gear change is appropriate by operating the right (+) steering wheel paddle or pushing the gearshift forward.
Note: In either automatic or manual mode a higher gear is also selected when the maximum safe engine speed for a gear is reached.
You must decrease the throttle pressure during upward gear changes.
During an upward gear change the I-SHIFT controller must reduce the engine speed to match the gear being selected. To do this the I-SHIFT controller has to take control of the throttle to prevent the engine from over-reving when the clutch is not engaged.
When the gearbox is moved into a higher gear the i-SHIFT controller is ready to return throttle control to the driver and manage clutch engagement. If the driver's throttle pressure is too high for the new gear the mismatch is overcome by i-SHIFT by temporarily reducing the additional throttle pressure. The driver will experience a lengthy upward change and the car may lose speed.
Reducing the throttle pressure during a change increases the smoothness and speed of upward changes.
Increasing the throttle pressure during a gear change will cause a lengthened upward gear change. This may result in the road speed reducing and the new gear choice an inappropriate one. In this situation there can be a further delay as i-SHIFT downshifts to a lower gear.
Upward shifts from 1st gear will not occur until the road speed is above 5MPH.
Downward shifts
In automatic mode, the i-SHIFT controller will shift to a lower gear when the current road speed is decreasing and current engine load is increasing. If the throttle is steadily opened and the road speed not increased proportionally then a lower gear is selected (if allowable). In manual mode, the driver must decide when the downward change is appropriate by operating the left (-) steering wheel paddle or pulling the gearshift backward.
Note: a lower gear is automatically selected when the minimum road-speed for a gear is reached.
How has Shifty behaved this week?
It' s been OK. Now that I have learnt the bit about reducing engine speeds on changes I am getting on a lot better with the car. For instance I have reduced the number of times I switch to manual. I'm down to 3 occasions from 15 on my eighty-mile round-trip commute.
What am I trying to get better at?
- Starting off in 1st and getting a quick change to 2nd before the engine noise gets above normal. Getting better at this but still need to improve this.
- Feel like I am using too much throttle in too a higher gear on gradual inclines. Feel like the car (and me) would be happier in a lower gear.
- I am really trying not interferring with i-SHIFT but instead Shifty teach me.
- Reminding myself that Shifty is a lot more of a manual car than a classic automatic one.
- The new shape
- Supportive seats
- Telescopic and angle adjustable steering wheel.
- Information display: especially like the miles to empty display.
- The slightly higher fuel economy
- Better acceleration
- Electric windows that still work for ten minutes after switching the ignition off (cancels if a door opens)
- Intermittant rear wipe
- Automatic rear wiping if reverse engaged and front wipers in intermittant or continuous mode
- Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) - really handy if you're trying to move off and have one front wheel on something slippy. It's like having a friend always on hand to give you shove if you're stuck.
Actually. I think I am starting to see that i-SHIFT isn't that awful and that Honda were aiming to give the public an automatic car with lower emissions. They've achieved that. OK. As a driver I have had to unlearn some of my CVT driving techniques - especially the drifting around without really thinking about hills, junctions, roundabouts - and have had to become a bit more involved in the driving process.
I think come the warmer temperatures I am going to see even higher MPG figures. I am hoping to get above the CVT summer time 65MPG figures. I'd love to get 70MPG on my weekly commute?
It really is good to hear someone who realises it's not a "normal" automatic and you need to adopt a different style of driving. I have just bought an i-shift Jazz and find it 1st Class. Previously I had a Yaris MMT which is a similair type of gearbox and covered 19k in 14 months. Initially I found it "jumpy" but when I learned to ease off between changes It was great.
ReplyDeleteThe Jazz is the same - in fact far smoother.
People love to complain and this can clearly be seen by the people who are not happy.
You need to remember.... It's not an automatic but a manual gearbox with a computerised clutch.
I have an 09 Jazz with i-Shift which has covered 82,000 miles. There is some clutch judder when moving away when cold, no judder when it's warm. Could this be the actuator controlling the clutch or the clutch itself ?
ReplyDeleteAny idea how much a replacement clutch will be ?
Patrick
Sorry to hear that your own Jazz is a little under the weather. I'm not a mechanic but can suggest some things.
DeleteOur own Jazz does not have this problem and we're currently 25K miles in your Jazz's future BUT here's probably why. Our car drives long journeys mostly on fast rural roads and probably spends 80% of its time in sixth. So on our car iShift isn't using the clutch any where as near as say a car that had spent its life in town.
Probably the biggest wear time is during clutch slip during start off from rest and particularly on hill starts. That said, iShift is a pretty quick worker when it comes to operating the clutch so slip is minimised, so long as you're using the handbrake rather than the foot brake when the car is stopped.
If you've owned your iShift from new then you'll know what style of driving it's had and that can help with your judgement about whether you'd expect a worn clutch by 80K or not.
One problem that automated manual transmission (AMT) cars like iShift has is that it can't be as clever and adaptive as humans can. Which means if we're in control of the clutch we can overcome the early affects of clutch wear or other clutch faults by changing the engagement speed, the engine speed at point of engagement and duration of slip.
I'm assuming the iShift controller has no way of sensing judder so it can't adapt in the way we would.
My thoughts are the controller, electronics and electro hydraulic components are designed to outlast the wearable components like the clutch plates and the release bearings. I assume that you've confirmed that the hydraulic clutch fluid reservoir is at the correct level too.
I'd recommend that you discuss your problem with your Honda dealer, take out a mechanic and demonstrate the problem. Ask if reading the fault diagnostic memory of the iShift controller would help troubleshoot.
My immediate thoughts though are that despite iShift remotely operating your gear shift and operating the clutch, the underlying clutch system is a simple single plate dry clutch. It's probable its just worn out.
Cost. I'd recommend you pay the slight premium and get the Honda dealer to do the work. You'll get warranty for the new parts fitted and trained mechanics that can cope with any set up required such as resetting the clutch wear position in the iShift controller.
Let's us know how it works out.
In 2007, after a short test drive, I purchased a second hand low mileage 56 plate Civic SE Sport with the I-shift gearbox. Within a few hundred miles I quickly became very frustrated with the jerky, unresponsive transmission and returned the vehicle to the dealer twice for adjustment and software upgrades; none of which appeared to have any impact on the car’s driveability. Thinking I’d made a big mistake that I’d have to live with the next few years I reluctantly decided to try and adapt to the problems I was encountering, especially during urban traffic runs.
DeleteTo be honest it took me a good few months to get used to the gearbox and even now, 7 years later, I still get caught out occasionally, especially at roundabouts. I have though learned to live with the box and come to appreciate some of the advantages over more conventional automatics. These include improved fuel consumption, excellent manual control via the paddles and quick, slur free, acceleration.
In fact I like it so much that we’ve recently replaced my wife’s 04 plate Jazz (CVT) with a Jazz 1.4 EX i-shift which she absolutely loves. We both drive each other’s cars and I have noticed that the Jazz’s i-shift is smoother than the Civic’s. Another plus over the manual Jazz version is the 6 speed gearbox and the hill start facility which we both love.
If you can be patient and allow more time to adapt to the gearbox you will grow to like it. Second hand I-shift vehicles are generally a bit cheaper than their manual equivalents and with a bit of haggling you could end up with a real bargain.